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Nov. 18th, 2012

I used to belong to a certain community about customers that will remain nameless. I was ejected because I dared to declare that just because I'm white, that doesn't make me a racist.

They are a community where people tell stories about customers that were an issue. Customers who were rude, customers who asked them to work when they were off the clock. Customers who asked unreasonable things of them. And yet they have lost their way, due to over-moderation, and become a place where people are too afraid to tell their stories because inevitably they will be deconstructed, until they're no longer a story about an annoying customer and until they become an indicator that the OP is a racist, a classist, a homophobe and a sexist.

I weep for a world that relies too heavily on political correctness and pandering to these minority groups that see EVERY LITTLE THING as an attack. Some things are an attack. I am sorry for the plight of marginalized minorities, I really am. I happen to be female and white, and a lesbian. I've experienced my share of homogenization for being white, and marginalization for being both female, and homosexual. I've seen both sides of the coin. But I don't see that I ought to be vilified if a story I tell about a man who happens to upset me at work, includes descriptors for fullness of story.

And, to get to my point, I'm tired of pandering to people who like children. I'm tired of pandering to breeders and parents and child enthusiasts of all walks of life. I don't LIKE children. But I don't have to like them. My dislike of children isn't in any way infringing on their right to like children. My dislike of children isn't in any way infringing in their right to HAVE children. The mere fact that I express an opinion, doesn't carve that opinion in stone to be held up on the same level as, say, the Ten Commandments. It's MY OPINION, and I'm entitled to it, and I'm tired of censoring it just to appease the child lovers out there.

If you are out there, and you like children, more power to you. But I don't. I do not like children. And I'm tired of apologizing for that fact. I'm not telling people to stop liking children. That's not my call. What I'm asking is that people stop telling ME that MY opinion is somehow inferior because it doesn't align with theirs. Tolerance has to go both ways.

And as for that community that threw me out? I know I'm not a racist. And I am their loss.

Comments

( 68 comments — Leave a comment )
cykotyks
Nov. 18th, 2012 08:58 am (UTC)
ahahaha... I know exactly what comm you're talking about; I left/got forced out because I dared express my unhappiness with young children calling each other "gaylord" in the store I was managing. (How dare I explicitly claim my dislike for children in regards to their mindless parroting of slurs and their parents' inaction in correcting them!) But hey, that incident led me here, so I'm not too bummed - this comm is way better.
infinitygoddess
Nov. 18th, 2012 03:15 pm (UTC)
So...let me get this straight. People took issue with you ranting about children throwing around homophobic slurs with impunity, and then these same people in the same comm in question turn around and accuse the OP of being racist.

WTF. @.@ That's some twisted logic there.
(no subject) - justcloseby - Nov. 18th, 2012 09:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - infinitygoddess - Nov. 18th, 2012 11:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - justcloseby - Nov. 18th, 2012 11:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
hallonlakrits
Nov. 18th, 2012 10:50 am (UTC)
I got pitchforked and torched for voicing my opinion once (basically, I couldn't understand why the US forces are entitled to discounts), to the point that they copied my post onto some community for "stupid things people say" causing me to get abuse from so many strangers.

So basically, you're best off out of there. People are incapable of debate/adult discussions.
justcloseby
Nov. 18th, 2012 10:53 am (UTC)
I think people are absolutely capable of debate/adult discussions, as long as no one tries to present an alternative point of view. People are only capable of intelligent debate if they're talking to someone who supports their position and isn't looking to change them or expand their horizons.
(no subject) - hallonlakrits - Nov. 18th, 2012 10:59 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nyxalinth - Nov. 21st, 2012 07:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
waters_of_lethe
Nov. 18th, 2012 01:03 pm (UTC)
Oh I know which com you're talking about and I have seen the shit you describe here.
Its sad really, I've left quite a few communities because the people there scream at you and call you a racist/sexist/classicist/ableist for every little thing they can possibly connect to some obscure way of insulting someone in their heads.
And if you do reply that no, you are not [insert -ist of you choice]and it was not meant that way, it seems you will never ever be forgiven because damage is already done and they now hate you.

Reason #1 I love this community: You CAN discuss things and voice your opinion WITHOUT being attacked with every -ist word out there!
ljtaylor
Nov. 18th, 2012 02:16 pm (UTC)
Seconding all of this comment.
(no subject) - celianna - Nov. 20th, 2012 03:02 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Nov. 22nd, 2012 01:36 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - justcloseby - Nov. 22nd, 2012 01:39 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Nov. 22nd, 2012 01:56 am (UTC) - Expand
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nyxalinth
Nov. 18th, 2012 03:49 pm (UTC)
Yup, I know the one, I'm still there, though I've run afoul of the stupid, too. I once called a disagreeable and unpleasant woman I'd dealt with a 'hag' and got dogpiled for it. Then someone called another female customer they'd dealt with a 'bitch' and not one word of dissent was raised. They seem to be selective at times over there about whom they will jump all over and whom they will not :P
justcloseby
Nov. 18th, 2012 10:05 pm (UTC)
Let me guess - they dogpiled you over "hag" because it's a quote unquote "gendered insult", right? And it degrades women? Yet if one of the dogpilers happened to use "bitch", it gets conveniently overlooked even though it's just as much of a gendered insult as hag.

I mean, I can see that if a word is flat out offensive, it shouldn't be used. I wouldn't write a story about a person of color by stating "Hey yo, this n***** came up to me at work and was asking me where the grape soda was at, even though he be standing right in front of it! How whack is that??"

But if a word has passed into the vernacular and come to mean something very different, then I don't think people ought to be jumped on. There's a huge difference between educating someone on the origins of a word that used to be offensive, and in "releasing the hounds" on a person for being ignorant.

Similarly, I think that in general, it's only well-read people are the people who have the problems. They've read enough to know where words come from and they use this knowledge like a weapon, akin to smacking people around with their vocabulary. To me, I can make a reasoned argument that hag and bitch are both gendered insults. I understand the reasoning behind calling them that. And yet I can also comprehend that to some other people, they're just... words. They're just descriptors that don't carry any more weight than any other words. Their use wasn't intended to call out females in general, it was just a word choice that made sense in the heat of the moment and the telling of the story.

Look at the word "faggot". It used to be understood that if you referred to a faggot, you were talking about a bundle of sticks. Woe betide the person who refers to anyone or anything as a faggot today. And as that word has changed over the years, so have other words changed in the opposite direction, leaving behind the offence they right caused at their inception and taking on a much more innocuous existence.

TL;DR I agree with you, and had a bunch of stuff I wanted to get off my chest lmao. I could talk about this for hours, but I think you've been punished enough ;)
(no subject) - nyxalinth - Nov. 21st, 2012 06:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
longtail
Nov. 18th, 2012 04:29 pm (UTC)
Many people just want to find any excuse to slander others so they can have a self-righteous fix. Unfortunately that comm disintegrated into another S_F community a long time ago. It's where the dregs of the internet go to pretend they're lives aren't pathetic.
barbayat
Nov. 18th, 2012 05:17 pm (UTC)
The community that shall not be named - but that anyway everyone knows.

I think this whole political correctness crap is anyone bullshit. It just gives room for people to hide their true nature (not all some will always show their true feelings). At the other end, it allowys pc freaks to jump on anyone for almost anything. Getting high on the "I'm so righteous" vibe dogpiling on a person who certainly does ont deserve it who either a) will feel horrible because they care b) might develop an ever stronger bias or c) simply go elsewhere and learn nothing.

So often I see, I have explained it someone else before, so now I just jump on you. If you explaind it so often, how about copy paste? That might actually convince me that they are not about just enjoying being among the majority who jumps on the minority for a change.

Not to mention, throwing around the word racist or homophobe around casually does not help anything. There is a difference about being prejudiced by upbringing or arrogance, or even through media bias (which most of us can't avoid being) and being someone who is so full of hate that they harm other purposefully through actions.
curlyjo1
Nov. 18th, 2012 07:01 pm (UTC)
"The community that shall not be named - but that anyway everyone knows."

Hey, they're notorious around here for their bullshit.
(no subject) - justcloseby - Nov. 18th, 2012 10:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - okami_no_yume - Nov. 19th, 2012 10:28 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kaidan_the_bat - Nov. 19th, 2012 03:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - celianna - Nov. 20th, 2012 03:07 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - okami_no_yume - Nov. 21st, 2012 10:40 am (UTC) - Expand
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werewolfwithin
Nov. 18th, 2012 05:37 pm (UTC)
I wonder if that was the same com that featured the story about the kid who managed to cause over 30 grand in damages in a guitar store. Stupid brat tried to climb some shelves and pulled the display down, ruining several guitars, one of which was an antique worth almost half of the total.
grifen411
Nov. 18th, 2012 08:04 pm (UTC)
I left that comm a few years ago when I got a "mod note" for asking a SAHMoo what the point of her post was because it was only vaguely a suck and more of a "look at me, I am a moo and need udder rubs" attention whoring post.
cindel
Nov. 18th, 2012 08:37 pm (UTC)
White privilege tho.
justcloseby
Nov. 18th, 2012 10:16 pm (UTC)
So if I had a dick, that would automatically make me sexist? Because, male privilege?

If I was straight, that'd automatically make me a homophobe? Because, straight privilege?

Being white doesn't automatically make me racist. I absolutely acknowledge that white privilege exists, but I categorically deny ever setting out to benefit from it. If it happened, then that wasn't something I chose or could do anything about, because my parents partook in a genetic crapshoot and I came out with this skin, these eyes and this hair.
(no subject) - chance_medley - Nov. 21st, 2012 09:28 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - cindel - Nov. 24th, 2012 11:51 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - cykotyks - Nov. 19th, 2012 01:09 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - mostlyvegan - Nov. 21st, 2012 07:11 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Nov. 22nd, 2012 01:38 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - justcloseby - Nov. 22nd, 2012 01:41 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Nov. 22nd, 2012 01:53 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
justcloseby
Nov. 18th, 2012 10:17 pm (UTC)
See my comment above re: the PC Police.
(no subject) - lilenth - Nov. 22nd, 2012 01:43 am (UTC) - Expand
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trichgal76
Nov. 18th, 2012 10:14 pm (UTC)
I think That Certain CS Comm changed Mods in the last year or so, but there are posters/commentors there that cause alot of wank over nothing and when the OP tries to defend themselves, the mods sometimes step in and warns the OP and not the wankers. Not always the case. Some other commenters will defend the OP too. Just be flame proof when you defend your post. I remember reading a few posts where the OP got attacked over nothing and the old mods (kittylair and 2 others that were real bitches) would blame the OP and either warned th OP or ban them. Then the post was deleted by the mods. Kittylair and her 2 mods hated CFers. I think she even posted rules against using CF terms or she'd even ban you if you belonged to CF comms. Looks like that has changed now.

As long as you don't use CF terms and just describe how awful the parents or kids are as customers, you won't get banned from there. The new mods are not bitches on power trips like the old ones used to be.

Try http://customerssuck.livejournal.com/
Not as many members but less wank to deal with.
justcloseby
Nov. 18th, 2012 10:18 pm (UTC)
Sounds about right, but I've found an off-LJ site that I enjoy much, much more - the forums at www.customerssuck.com
(no subject) - amethyst_hunter - Nov. 19th, 2012 05:15 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - justcloseby - Nov. 18th, 2012 10:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - electriceff - Nov. 18th, 2012 11:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
legman666
Nov. 19th, 2012 03:34 am (UTC)
they kicked me out for using anti-kyd words!

i even learned a few new ones!
doomsloth
Nov. 19th, 2012 06:00 am (UTC)
holy hell, something similar happened on another CF board! Some random person had a problem with the word breeder, it started a fight among everyone. Then I got into a fight with one twatlord who vehemently argued that calling someone a breeder is the same as using the 'n' word. She wouldn't stop dropping the 'n' bomb through out the entire arguement. It made me sick.

There have even been occasions where some people on this different CF forum were compared to fucking NAZI's! Any why? Because we 'oppress children' FUCK THAT! In the end I pointed out that NAZIs tried to control speech as well.
justcloseby
Nov. 19th, 2012 06:06 am (UTC)
Furthermore, you can grow out of being a kid. You can't grow out of being black.

...or an asshole.
(no subject) - doomsloth - Nov. 19th, 2012 06:22 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - kat144 - Nov. 21st, 2012 05:19 am (UTC) - Expand
tarma
Nov. 19th, 2012 04:46 pm (UTC)
At least one gratifying thing about that comm; it used to be so busy you couldn't keep up with reading the posts on a daily basis. Compared to now, it's dead. A post can sit on the front page for days sometimes.
justcloseby
Nov. 19th, 2012 04:48 pm (UTC)
Because people are too damn afraid to post anything - anything more descriptive than "today I had a customer. They sucked" will be mercilessly deconstructed until you feel like you ought to have just jumped off a bridge than dared rant in a so-called rant community.
(no subject) - tarma - Nov. 19th, 2012 05:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marysia - Nov. 20th, 2012 05:51 am (UTC) - Expand
celianna
Nov. 20th, 2012 03:17 am (UTC)
I know your pain about all those super PC communities. I sometimes I watch them, but never post. I once made the mistake of posting in a venting community, and in the end was called a homophobe and a misogynistic by the rest of them. They're just waiting for you to drop a word they deem offensive, and then bombard you with comments to make you feel bad enough to apologize or leave outright.

It's why I go to IJ to vent.

Also, I am Dutch, this means I'm automatically racist because I I find nothing wrong with Zwarte Piet (Black Pete).
chance_medley
Nov. 21st, 2012 09:20 am (UTC)
I rather dislike the term "politically correct" because it's often used by assholes who sneer at the idea of being sensitive and considerate towards other people. It just rubs me the wrong way the way "misandry" and "reverse racism" do.

However, I can't stand Social Justice Warriors who get buttmad and clutch their pearls every time someone doesn't abide by their stringent list of Words and Terms That Shall Never Be Used. God help the poor sap who doesn't have that list memorized.
lilenth
Nov. 22nd, 2012 01:50 am (UTC)
I'm wondering what you said to get accused of being racist, specifically I'm wondering if you said something and didn't realise the actual impact of what you were saying. It takes a lot of practise and checking your privilege to realise even half of the shitty things we're socialised to believe are incredibly shitty.

As a white person you, like every white person are socialised to believe in and surrounded by racial stereotypes, social stigma and yes, racist beliefs. One of the big issues white people face is we're taught to see racism as only things like calling someone a N*****, or murdering them just because of their skin color, we're taught to ignore or discount the microaggressive nature of most racism. Whether that be slurs, the use of harmful racial stereotypes, unthinking racist comments that we don't realise are racist.

It is entirely possible to say something racist and not realise that yes, what you said was racist, it's possible to be racist and not realise it. Racism isn't necessarily an active attitude. Being racist doesn't necessarily imply active and direct hate, sometimes it just means you absorbed a harmful belief about a racial minority.
justcloseby
Nov. 22nd, 2012 01:54 am (UTC)
If what you're saying is true, than instead of dogpiling people and throwing them out, they should try a little education. And not the kind of education that involves screaming at people via a wall of text. More flies with honey. Message more well received when it isn't delivered with a crowbar.

Furthermore, NONE of this ought to matter in a ranting community where a person comes to just let off a little steam so they can continue acting like a human being in the real world. I know that's what I use rant communities for - for letting my anger out in a way that isn't aimed at anyone in particular, so I can then go about my life. I don't appreciate being dogpiled in the place where you're supposed to be allowed to do that.
(no subject) - lilenth - Nov. 22nd, 2012 02:02 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - cindel - Nov. 25th, 2012 07:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Nov. 26th, 2012 02:17 am (UTC) - Expand
( 68 comments — Leave a comment )

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